Why do Ubers Pokemon tend to favor Thunder over Thunderbolt while in lower tiers Thunderbolt is favored?
Xerneas’s smogon set
Thunderous-Therian’s smogon set
Why?
Pleaselog inorregisterto add a comment.
In Ubers, half the Pokémon have 100+ HP and Defenses, and Thunderbolt without STAB in Ubers is like hitting a Chansey with Earth Power, ain’t gonna hit so hard.Thunder trades accuracy for the extra power, and in Ubers, sorry mate, but you would have to take the nice risk.Thunder turns some 2HKO’s by Thunderbolt to OHKO’s, 3HKO’s to 2HKO’s, and so on.
A few calcs:
While,
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 288-340 (84.4 - 99.7%) –guaranteed 2HKO
And,
While,
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 372-438 (83.7 - 98.6%) –guaranteed 2HKO
There are a lot more calcs like this, this just showcases that in Ubers, need for higher power is req.
So yep, you have to take the risk if you wanna win.
(btw take this answer as NDAG…)
I guess you want to know why Thunder ain’t used, and they recommend TBolt.The main reason for this is, that Thunderbolt is gonna nail all the foes in lower tiers, with a nice amount of them having only 85+ Defenses, and Thunder’s low accuracy is too much to gamble with. If it misses, ggswp, if it doesn’tstillggswp, but on Thunderbolt, let’s take Primarina for example, after Rocks damage, it has a nice chance to KO (252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Primarina: 254-300 (84.3 - 99.6%) – 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock). Thunderbolt’s nice BP of 90 is nice for low tiers (Oh I used nice two times).Another thing is, Thundurus gets STAB from TBolt, whereas things like Xern don’t get the STAB factor on Bolt.
From aThe Smog Article, I’ll quote:
Thunderbolt, in general, is a good move. In OU and below, Thunderbolt suffices as a good coverage move. However, in Ubers, where most Pokémon have 100/100 in their specially defensive stats, without STAB, even super effective Thunderbolts are tickling common Ubers. For example, Choice Scarf Genesect only does 36.14% - 43.07% to max HP Kyogre with Thunderbolt, which is only a 3HKO. Now, I know that people hate Thunder and its accuracy, but in Ubers, you NEED that power, and that 70% accuracy is just something you’re going to have to accept and take a gamble on. Even then, it’s not always a gamble, since with Kyogre in Ubers being like Rafael Nadal on clay courts, Thunder is the best choice overall.
I did note that there were a couple of exceptions to this rule. Basically, just like Ice Beam,anything with STAB on Thunderbolt are perfectly fine to use the move, since they have enough power on it. This would include the Thundurus formes, Electric Arceus, and to a certain extent, Magnezone. Another Pokémon that can also be accepted to use Thunderbolt is Fire Arceus. Even in Fire Arceus’s case, it is a huge toss up between Thunderbolt and Thunder. It uses Thunderbolt because it requires the coverage in the sun to strike down Ho-Oh, although Thunder would allow it to defeat Kyogre more efficiently. In any case, it is generally accepted that Fire Arceus can use Thunderbolt because it is a designated sun sweeper. This does not mean you can extend this to say, Palkia in a sun team, because Palkia’s main purpose is to check Kyogre, which would bring rain along, making Thunder the ideal choice.
The Article was of Gen 5, but I guess the same rule would apply here also.
Source:Experience
Hope it helped!!
Excellent answer by hoennseptile and Assault Destiny as always, but wanted to add which calculations are specifically turned from 2HKO to OHKO. Kyogre is never a worry because at +2 SpD can take Origin Pulse, but the main target is Ho-oh and Zacian-C.
(Thunderbolt)
(Thunder)
Even though Dynamax was banned so was Zacian-C, the set and analysis has been previously made and not yet updated. Since Dynamaxed moves have maximum accuracy, the extra trade in power isn’t questionable as well.If you feel RNG hates you then you can go for Thunderbolt or have a Kyogre (it’s a great wallbreaker so no worries in running both and of course no rain team).
Source: Xerneas' analysis and some EXP
Taking it for UU. Primarina NEVER runs 0 HP / 0 SpD. The most common set for it is 248 HP / 0 SpD in UU.
Indeed, getting a good chance to OHKO seems tempting but its not worth the luck. Take a look at the bulkiest SpD Pokemon in UU:
/nds uu, spd desc:Nihilego, Moltres-Galar, Tentacruel, Primarina, Slowking, Rotom-Heat, Rotom-Wash, Chansey
While it surely can 2HKO after Stealth Rocks damage, you had required a Sticky Web support since Nihilego is always faster.Moltres-G gets OHKOed by a +2 Thunderbolt, meaning you don’t need the higher damage of Thunder. Similarly, Tentacruel, Slowking, etc. are OHKOed by Thunderbolt. Thus, you don’t need the higher damage output of Thunder since it doesn’t turn any 2HKO/3HKO to OHKO unlike in Ubers.
So since Xerneas takes the benefit of higher damage turning 2HKOes of Thunderbolt to OHKO by Thunder. For which, Xerneas likes Thunder over Thunderbolt but in lower tiers Thunderbolt has enough power to get KOes as much as Thunder does.
Because of high BSTs.Ever seen ho-oh special defence? Or zygarde-c hp? Of course you have. Being an uber player I can answer this well(most probably)Ubers is basically OUBl. The stat are balanced and very high or the Pokémon has something very different and powerful (dracovish, low stats but fishious rend). To crack such big s.def’s thunder and other powerful moves are preferred which are inaccurate. I personally use such moves because they’re basically necessary.Source: experienceEDIT: why no blizzard Mewtwo exists—-Unnecessary. Ice beam can cover almost same, Eternatus isn’t like ho-oh in s.def. Plus it’s 99% outclassed by caly shadow.Hope I helped!
